Text: Karin Koolen
Photography: Paul Tolenaar
Ton Schaap and Paco Bunnik have worked together for almost a decade. Now, after forty years with the municipality, Ton is stepping down and Paco is taking over the major task of the Zuidas District, and more. Time for a chat about our beautiful capital, urban planning in 2022, walkable cities, and being at large in Cairo. With a measuring tape.
Ton Schaap has been committed to Amsterdam, heart and soul, for four decades. He has made a major contribution to the walkable city and can look back on many great projects. But if you ask Ton – who is now retired – about what he’s proud of, he frowns. ‘Pride is such a strange concept to me. It’s so fashionable these days, which makes me immediately want to resist it. As Eduard Douwes Dekker once wrote, we’re all the same size when we’re seen from the moon.’
Fine then, we’ll say satisfied instead. And Ton is satisfied – about the IJ, for example, which is now a significant part of the city with a structure and character all of its own. The Oostelijk Havengebied, the Zuidas District... and the Westelijke Eilanden as well, where a new neighbourhood was successfully created, with urban functions such as a court and hotel.
Ton smiles: ‘In the most recent edition of Jaarboek Architectuur in Nederland (the Dutch Architectural Yearbook), eleven of the twenty-five projects were from Amsterdam. You can’t get much better than that.’
We’re sitting in the Amsterdam Zuidas Information Centre, next to the large scale model. Although Ton has been retired for a little while now, the coronavirus outbreak means that he postponed the celebration until early September.
‘The point is, you build cities for people.
They have to be both sufficiently dense and liveable, with plenty to
see and do at eye level’
New meaning
Paco Bunnik, who is nowhere near ready to retire, comes in with a carafe of water and a black tea for his former colleague. As soon as the pair get together, the stories start to flow.
‘I fell in love with Amsterdam immediately,’ says Ton, who was born and raised in Almelo. He still remembers it vividly: ‘I was standing on the Rokin, where the Allard Pierson is now. I was a boy from the east of the country, with plans to come here to study. The city bewitched me.’
Paco agrees that Amsterdam has a unique energy: ‘With each area development, we rediscover the city and add new layers of meaning to it. And there is so much water in Amsterdam, which presents opportunities.’
Paco ran his own architectural firm for many years before coming to work for the municipality, fourteen years ago now. He has never regretted the decision: ‘Here, you get to create a city together that prioritises public space, and that continues to inspire me.’ And the longer you work, the more enriched you become. A while ago he spoke to a tree expert for a project, and a whole world opened up for him. ‘Since then, I’ve taken a different view of area developments – a more holistic view.’
‘You never stop learning,’ adds Ton. ‘Every urban planner should have to design a public space, from start to finish. It stops you getting stuck in abstractions. You have to deal with every concrete detail, such as how a house connects to a shop, where you can leave bicycles, or how high or wide a pavement is. Height differences can add a lot to a plan, except if you get it wrong. Going through the whole process makes all the subsequent projects better.’
‘Every urban planner should have to design a public space, from start to finish. It stops you getting stuck in abstractions’
Whenever Ton received a new project, the first thing he did was get on his bike. An example is Sporenburg in the Oostelijk Havengebied, where he later went to live. ‘It’s beautifully located on the waterfront, of course, but when I got there, all I could see were wharves. It was all too flat. We built up the surface level to make it convex, and raised Overhoeks and the streets on Haveneiland so that the sightlines would lead to the water. It was necessary to change the level in order to create a better experience of the area.’Paco: ‘Urban planners use their knowledge and expertise, but also their intuition. You have to go there, and you have to feel what it’s like there.’
Walkable city
Urban planners around the world are working on the walkable city; cities that are attractive for pedestrians and easy to get around without a car. Amsterdam has been at the forefront of this movement in recent years, with the aim of becoming and remaining a humane metropolis.[RJ1] But Ton believes that Amsterdam is perhaps more eminently bikeable. ‘The point is, you build cities for people. They have to be both sufficiently dense and liveable, with plenty to see and do at eye level. In the past, roads got bigger and bigger while pavements shrank. But what if you could find everything you needed right here? Then perhaps you could get rid of that car.’
Paco thinks for a moment and then says: ‘On the other hand, we should be careful not to turn the walkable city into a sacred cow. After all, it’s a combination of bustle and quiet with a variety of traffic that makes the city a city. While it’s essential to provide adequate space for pedestrians, not everything has to be a pedestrian zone.’
Ton and Paco have worked together on the Zuidas District for the last nine years. It has long since ceased to be the corporate enclave it once was.
Ton: ‘The section near the Gerrit Rietveld Academy as well as the Kop Zuidas have already become really nice neighbourhoods. The streets are on a human scale, with lots of greenery. This is the way to create a pleasant, mixed-use city area. There’s sometimes still a little too much asphalt, but that can be adjusted.’
‘Amsterdam is larger and more versatile than you think’
Urban planning supervisors stand up for the public values of the city, says Paco. ‘It’s up to us to monitor the quality, from vision to design. To make the Zuidas District a “city”, you really need culture and bars, a nightlife, in addition to housing. You have to realise that as a municipality, otherwise you won’t achieve your goal.’
Both believe that the Zuidas District has what it takes to become a ‘city’. In terms of infrastructure, it’s a unique area with the station in the middle and its proximity to the centre. It doesn’t replace the city centre – it enriches it. ‘Bearing densification in mind, it’s also important to expand the city,’ Paco believes. ‘Amsterdam is larger and more versatile than you think.’
Inspiration
What inspires the two urban planners? ‘Travel,’ says Paco immediately. ‘I can wander endlessly and lose myself. I walked so far in Cairo that the street names disappeared. That’s when I look around, make contact, have coffee. And that’s when you see beautiful things. Then I wonder, how can I take that back to Amsterdam? Conversations with peers from other cities also often provide fresh insights.’
Ton: ‘Jan Gehl, a really well-known urban planner from Copenhagen, visited all the little squares in Italy to discover the qualities of these spaces. A teacher once gave me the tip to always have a tape measure with me. After all, sometimes you’re walking somewhere that feels good, and you want to stay there for a while. Why is that? Try measuring things: the pavement, the distances. No matter where you travel, you’ll see and discover things. And when they’re right, you can use them. Another thing one of my old teachers taught me: many great designs and ideas didn’t come easily. So don’t be too quick to abandon something.’
‘One of my old teachers
taught me: many great designs and ideas didn’t come easily.
So don’t be too quick to abandon something.’
Upon his retirement, does Ton still have a dream for Amsterdam? Or is that just as meaningless a term as pride? ‘A little bit, yes.’ He laughs. ‘Build those two bridges first. Then North will be there and it will really become a city. And keep developing the Zuidas District. But with Paco and my other former colleagues at the helm, I am absolutely sure that Amsterdam will only increase in beauty.’
Text: Karin Koolen
Photography: Paul Tolenaar
Ton Schaap and Paco Bunnik have worked together for almost a decade. Now, after forty years with the municipality, Ton is stepping down and Paco is taking over the major task of the Zuidas District, and more. Time for a chat about our beautiful capital, urban planning in 2022, walkable cities, and being at large in Cairo. With a
measuring tape.
Ton Schaap has been committed to Amsterdam, heart and soul, for four decades. He has made a major contribution to the walkable city and can look back on many great projects. But if you ask Ton – who is now retired – about what he’s proud of, he frowns. ‘Pride is such a strange concept to me. It’s so fashionable these days, which makes me immediately want to resist it. As Eduard Douwes Dekker once wrote, we’re all the same size when we’re seen from the moon.’
Fine then, we’ll say satisfied instead. And Ton is satisfied – about the IJ, for example, which is now a significant part of the city with a structure and character all of its own. The Oostelijk Havengebied, the Zuidas District... and the Westelijke Eilanden as well, where a new neighbourhood was successfully created, with urban functions such as a court and hotel.
Ton smiles: ‘In the most recent edition of Jaarboek Architectuur in Nederland (the Dutch Architectural Yearbook), eleven of the twenty-five projects were from Amsterdam. You can’t get much better than that.’
We’re sitting in the Amsterdam Zuidas Information Centre, next to the large scale model. Although Ton has been retired for a little while now, the coronavirus outbreak means that he postponed the celebration until early September.
‘The point is, you build cities for people. They have to be both sufficiently dense and liveable, with plenty to see and do at eye level’
New meaning
Paco Bunnik, who is nowhere near ready to retire, comes in with a carafe of water and a black tea for his former colleague. As soon as the pair get together, the stories start to flow.
‘I fell in love with Amsterdam immediately,’ says Ton, who was born and raised in Almelo. He still remembers it vividly: ‘I was standing on the Rokin, where the Allard Pierson is now. I was a boy from the east of the country, with plans to come here to study. The city bewitched me.’
Paco agrees that Amsterdam has a unique energy: ‘With each area development, we rediscover the city and add new layers of meaning to it. And there is so much water in Amsterdam, which presents opportunities.’
Paco ran his own architectural firm for many years before coming to work for the municipality, fourteen years ago now. He has never regretted the decision: ‘Here, you get to create a city together that prioritises public space, and that continues to inspire me.’ And the longer you work, the more enriched you become. A while ago he spoke to a tree expert for a project, and a whole world opened up for him. ‘Since then, I’ve taken a different view of area developments – a more holistic view.’
‘You never stop learning,’ adds Ton. ‘Every urban planner should have to design a public space, from start to finish. It stops you getting stuck in abstractions. You have to deal with every concrete detail, such as how a house connects to a shop, where you can leave bicycles, or how high or wide a pavement is. Height differences can add a lot to a plan, except if you get it wrong. Going through the whole process makes all the subsequent projects better.’
‘Every urban planner should have to design a public space, from start to finish. It stops you getting stuck in abstractions’
Whenever Ton received a new project, the first thing he did was get on his bike. An example is Sporenburg in the Oostelijk Havengebied, where he later went to live. ‘It’s beautifully located on the waterfront, of course, but when I got there, all I could see were wharves. It was all too flat. We built up the surface level to make it convex, and raised Overhoeks and the streets on Haveneiland so that the sightlines would lead to the water. It was necessary to change the level in order to create a better experience of the area.’Paco: ‘Urban planners use their knowledge and expertise, but also their intuition. You have to go there, and you have to feel what it’s like there.’
Walkable city
Urban planners around the world are working on the walkable city; cities that are attractive for pedestrians and easy to get around without a car. Amsterdam has been at the forefront of this movement in recent years, with the aim of becoming and remaining a humane metropolis.[RJ1] But Ton believes that Amsterdam is perhaps more eminently bikeable. ‘The point is, you build cities for people. They have to be both sufficiently dense and liveable, with plenty to see and do at eye level. In the past, roads got bigger and bigger while pavements shrank. But what if you could find everything you needed right here? Then perhaps you could get rid of that car.’
Paco thinks for a moment and then says: ‘On the other hand, we should be careful not to turn the walkable city into a sacred cow. After all, it’s a combination of bustle and quiet with a variety of traffic that makes the city a city. While it’s essential to provide adequate space for pedestrians, not everything has to be a pedestrian zone.’
Ton and Paco have worked together on the Zuidas District for the last nine years. It has long since ceased to be the corporate enclave it once was.
Ton: ‘The section near the Gerrit Rietveld Academy as well as the Kop Zuidas have already become really nice neighbourhoods. The streets are on a human scale, with lots of greenery. This is the way to create a pleasant, mixed-use city area. There’s sometimes still a little too much asphalt, but that can be adjusted.’
‘Amsterdam is larger and more versatile than you think’
Urban planning supervisors stand up for the public values of the city, says Paco. ‘It’s up to us to monitor the quality, from vision to design. To make the Zuidas District a “city”, you really need culture and bars, a nightlife, in addition to housing. You have to realise that as a municipality, otherwise you won’t achieve your goal.’
Both believe that the Zuidas District has what it takes to become a ‘city’. In terms of infrastructure, it’s a unique area with the station in the middle and its proximity to the centre. It doesn’t replace the city centre – it enriches it. ‘Bearing densification in mind, it’s also important to expand the city,’ Paco believes. ‘Amsterdam is larger and more versatile than you think.’
Inspiration
What inspires the two urban planners? ‘Travel,’ says Paco immediately. ‘I can wander endlessly and lose myself. I walked so far in Cairo that the street names disappeared. That’s when I look around, make contact, have coffee. And that’s when you see beautiful things. Then I wonder, how can I take that back to Amsterdam? Conversations with peers from other cities also often provide fresh insights.’
Ton: ‘Jan Gehl, a really well-known urban planner from Copenhagen, visited all the little squares in Italy to discover the qualities of these spaces. A teacher once gave me the tip to always have a tape measure with me. After all, sometimes you’re walking somewhere that feels good, and you want to stay there for a while. Why is that? Try measuring things: the pavement, the distances. No matter where you travel, you’ll see and discover things. And when they’re right, you can use them. Another thing one of my old teachers taught me: many great designs and ideas didn’t come easily. So don’t be too quick to abandon something.’
Upon his retirement, does Ton still have a dream for Amsterdam? Or is that just as meaningless a term as pride? ‘A little bit, yes.’ He laughs. ‘Build those two bridges first. Then North will be there and it will really become a city. And keep developing the Zuidas District. But with Paco and my other former colleagues at the helm, I am absolutely sure that Amsterdam will only increase in beauty.’
‘One of my old teachers taught me: many great designs and ideas didn’t come easily. So don’t be too quick to abandon something.’
